The Caste System at the Pub

By lg326

Reality: July 6th, 2008

 

In the car with my Delhite interviewee, we picked up one of his friends on the way who’s a married Sikh Punjabi. He told me he’s a coconut-brown on the outside, white on the inside- and never learned the language. I found it  interesting how once we reached the pub, we were literally surrounded by Punjabi’s everywhere. He starts joking around with his friends and saying phrases in flawless taiht Punjabi—a village dialect of the Punjabi language- but earlier claimed that he does not speak the language!

An interview I had with a specialist on Punjabi culture in Punjab and the UK told me that with social science research, you must observe a person in a variety of situations because particularly with Indians, their personality changes from place to place. The way they act with elders is entirely different from the way they act with people their age, which again is entirely different with how they act with people from different religions and castes. I was about to see this behavior full fledged at the pub.

The majority of the group I was with was Punjabi with the exception of one first generation Zimbabwean girl, a Scottish girl, and an English girl. They all knew a lot about Punjabi culture, and had just gone to a Punjabi club the night before. The Zimbabwean girl started imitated Punjabi dance moves, included a very popular one called ‘The Lightbulb’, which literally looks like someone is twisting a lightbulb.  

The Scottish girl told me how she was in Scotland the week before and was thrilled to come back to England where there’s curry and naan. Driving to the pub, I saw signs advertising curry and beer. A government councilor told me that racists in the British National Party will lobby for a repatriation of South Asians and then go out to eat a curry afterwards. Apparently, all the white working class people on my street eat curry and other types of Indian food for dinner.  I don’t even eat that much Indian food!!

Being at the pub was fascinating because everyone was so different from the Indians I was accustomed to in Cleveland, OH. This was my first experience with second generation Punjabis in an informal setting. I talked with a lot of people and really enjoyed myself. Two conversations worth noting were with the CEO of a well established letting service (Letting= ‘renting’ in England). and a young fashion designer. 

It turns out nearly everyone at the pub was indirectly connected to his letting company which was founded with only 50 quid ( or so the story goes). Today, he’s a millionaire with minimal education and factory workers for parents. Of interest to me is the gang fights he talked of while in college that were all orchestrated along religio/cultural lines—Sikh gangs, Muslim gangs, West Indian gangs. He has large scar marks running through his shaven head from being clubbed with a crowbar by a Muslim gang and indents along his jaw bone from being punched with a chrome ring by again, a Muslim gang. His life story finally allowed me to see the clashes resulting from the deeply embedded religious problems South Asians in the UK have developed and now face. South Asian identity starting in the 80’s began to splinter off along religious lines and now it’s deeply cemented and dictatorial.

Another form of identity and grounds to discriminate was made apparent to me by the young fashion designer. I had read about but this form of discrimination but not yet witnessed it. While we were sitting around a table outdoors and chatting, the young fashion designer came to know I was Indian. She turned to me and asked, “What’s your caste?”

I was floored. What’s my caste? I had never been asked that before. It took me a few moments to reply and when I told her, it turned out we’re from the same caste. She immediately opened up entirely to me and we ended up becoming very good friends. It amazed me that someone so liberal could judge me based on my caste.

A few moments later, this caste nonsense happened again from a Sikh Punjabi. Sikh’s have a different caste system, even though technically it’s outlawed in the religion. The Indian culture has permeated not only Sikh Punjabis but also Pakistani Muslims which is the only Muslim country to have a caste system.

Here’s a sampling of the caste system intricacies, using myself as the example. My mom comes from a Hindu kshatriya family, which is the warrior caste, and my dad comes from a Sikh jatt family, which is a farmer caste. Supposedly, both are top castes, but both have never played even a slight role in my life… until I came to the UK. The idea of caste meant little in terms of my identity or social sphere. I came to know I was a kshatriya after reading  book and asking my mom what the word meant. I came to know I was a jatt simply because I’m not from the city. I can still recall my grandpa saying, “Village Sikh’s are loyal and true, City ones are sly and conniving.”  Knowing that I’m from a small village in Punjab, that I’ve visited many a time, I made a simple deduction that I’m a jatt. To be clear, this is not a proper understanding of the Punjabi caste system. As I would learn in England, it’s a lot more complicated than ‘jatt’ or ‘city’. To see caste distinctions so active amongst the youth in the UK conflicts me- is it abominable or is it natural?

During an expert interview I was warned that the caste system is very prominent amongst the South Asian diasporas in the UK but I never imagined it would be such a guiding force for young, second generationer’s.

The next day, I became more aware of the caste differences manifested in BritAsian institutions. A Ramgharia guruduwara for the lower caste Sikhs. The religious divisions on the immigrant filled Foleshill Road. The refusal by two of my interviewees to let their children marry out of their kshatriya caste. The ‘oohs’ and ‘aah’s I get when I say my boyfriend is a Kashmiri pundit. He’s not that great, I swear.

 

It makes me sad to see people bring such archaic ideas abroad. In Hinduism, there is the concept of dharma, which means life’s purpose. This idea was solidified in what’s called Hanuman’s Laws which essentially outlines different dharma’s and the way they should be followed. According to this interpretation, the universe is only in balance when people abide by their dharma. Thus, a carpenter will always be a carpenter, a shoe maker will always be a shoe maker, and a wealthy landlord will always be a wealthy landlord. According to my one intervieww, South Africa’s apartheid was influenced by India’s caste system as was Hitler’s concept of Aryan supremacy (Aryan’s are the supposed invaders, subjugators and civilization creators of India but this historical trajectory is starting to become recognized as a British colonial manipulation of fact. )

I guess it’s a catchy model to strive towards because of the immense advantages for those in power. I’m reading a book called A Fine Balance  by Rohinton Mistry and parts of the storyline show the treatment of the lower caste in India. Again, I was never aware of any of this before I came to England and it deeply affected me to see an India like that.  Examples of the caste system’s disgusting remnants in the 20th century: If a lower caste Dalit looks up at an upper class Brahmin, his eyes are gauged. If a lower caste Chamar overhears prayers coming form a temple, molten lead is poured in her ears. If lower caste Shudras touches the food of a Thakur, their hands are cut. It’s so appalling and violent, but the worst part is that it continues today in the villages.

As mentioned, the centuries of ordaining a strict social structure is even manifested in Pakistan, which is the only Muslim country in the world with a caste system. So I really should not be surprised that the caste system’s effects have seaped into the UK. I guess the real question is, why didn’t I notice it in America? Is it because I am surrounded by people of my caste naturally? When I thought about it, my parents social sphere consists entirely of educated, well-off jatt  Sikh Punjabi’s or kshatriya Hindu-Punjabi’s. Their friends from other regions (and perhaps castes) could easily be confuddled with acquaintances. So perhaps I never noticed the caste system abroad because my Indian community is pulled only from my caste?

   

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

5 Responses to “The Caste System at the Pub”

  1. ‘What’s your caste?’ at Blogbharti Says:

    [...] Preeti Gill encounters caste in an English Pub: [...]

  2. Ashwin Says:

    To me it is not as simple as people from India “bringing” their caste mindset when they move abroad. In the UK to the white man (and to every other immigrant group that lives here) any brown person is an Asian – you can be Indian, Pakistani, Hindu, Muslim, Sikh, well-dressed, shabbily dressed, working as a waiter, working as a banker in the City… it doesn’t matter. In such conditions, people, I think, feel lost; forget about something as specific as caste, they come here and find that they are not even distinguishable from one another based on much broader, stronger things like religion or nationality or prosperity.

    People who come here and find their “Indianness”, reinforcing things that they perhaps did not bother about when they were in India (like caste-based divisions), might be because of this. Apart from being immigrant and “Asian”, these new-found caste divisions sitting at the Bhangra Pub or walking on the street in Southall are identities they want to cultivate and hold on to in this new country.

    (I will admit that I have lived in the UK for only a year, and obviously this is a somewhat sensitive topic to hold forth about; please feel free to say that my opinion on this is not well-founded or is totally off the mark, I will listen and stand humbly corrected.)

    Ashwin

  3. Preeti Says:

    Dear Ashwin,

    I have lived in the UK for an even shorter amount of time than you so my observations have limitations too!

    However, two things I came across while in England. One, is that there is a growing recognition amongst the white population that Pakistani’s are different from the rest of South Asians. They are understanding that there is a difference and they are using this difference to further discriminate.

    Directly after 9/11, scathes of Indians went about wearing shirts on the tube or to the grocery store saying, “Dont freak, I’m a Sikh” or “Don’t pani, I’m not Islamic”. South Asians amped up the effort to distinguish themselves from Pakistani Muslim ( well Muslims in general) and in all honesty, I think it’s working.

    Which bring me to my second point. The efforts to differentiate began in the late 80’s/early 90’s. Generally, the pattern of social differentiation amongst immigrants is that initially, immigrants will all cling together, but as their numbers grow, they will begin to splinter off into class/gender/regional/religious groupings.

    Nearly all my interviewees who grew up during the late 70’s and 80’s told me that they were friends with Muslims, and there were no problems until this time period. When I would ask why, they would say, “Well because they want to convert our girls”. Which may be true, but is obviously and absolutely idiotic claim.

    As I continued my research, I found that time period not only coincided with a recession but also the Rushdie Affair and the Gulf War.

    This reaction to Islam led people to begin to return to their roots to define themselves. For second generation’s, that’s no longer their home land but religion. Religion has trascends the nation, and has been revived in light of economic issues and social dilemnas spawning from the 80’s.

    As Eleanor Nesbitt, an academic, founder of the Punjabi Research Group, and absolutely brilliant woman informed me, second generation immigrants are bringing back their culture in entirely perverted ways. They have partial understanding of history or culture, and they allow these partial understandings to inform their behavior and attitudes.

    One of the revivals is the caste system. The girl who friended me after hearing im a kshatriya could hardly explain what kshatriya means. All she knew is that it’s an upper caste.

    And so what I’m trying to say is yes, it’s in part a natural emotional process of immigration from South Asia, but also, it’s part of the sudden Muslim threat the media is harping on as well as a natural process of splintering that occurs as an immigrant population swells to a certain point.

  4. Ashwin Says:

    Hi Preeti,

    Thanks for replying in such detail. I wanted to read all your posts on this blog before replying to your comment – I finally got the chance and the time to do that properly today!

    It is interesting what you’re saying about white people thinking of Pakistanis as different from other South Asians – I would extend that a bit and say that the difference in their minds is basically between Muslim Asians and non-Muslim Asians.

    I am surprised you have not mentioned anything about the presence of burqa/hijab-clad women in English towns (and in London). I have heard extremely tolerant, quite un-racist English people express their unease at this. I once met a fifty-year old English woman, a well educated, upper-middle class Londoner, in Leytonstone (not far from Gravesend). I asked her whether she felt London had changed much over the last five or ten years, and she said “Yes it has even in the last 5 years, there are certainly more women with burqas aren’t there?” I remember there was no hint of intolerance or racism in her voice, only a hint of being worried or scared, at seeing so many people so different from her – people who wouldn’t even show their faces in public… and I was thinking, is this English lady’s voice heard? She has lived in Leytonstone all her life, what she feels is genuine too isn’t it?

    In the whole immigration/racism debate that happens on the street and in the newspapers and on television, I’ve always got the feeling that voice of the native (i.e. white British) population never seems to be considered too much. You hear of entire towns turning “immigrant” – Asian, East European, African – in South East England over a relatively short timespan, as little as five or ten years. Is any effort made to find out how the native white population feels about this? Is there any effort made to streamline the numbers of new people coming, or to make sure that not
    all of them are ghetto-ised into particular parts of the city (thus leading to
    tensions with already-existing groups in those areas)?

    What I’m wondering is, is there a lot said for the rights and needs of immigrants and asylum seekers, but not enough about the feelings of ordinary, conversative English folk? People who have lived all their lives in small towns with limited “exposure” — people just like, for example, our families who live in small towns with limited “exposure” back in India — with the same not-so-cosmopolitan views of life — who have to
    suddenly open up their space and their street with people so different from them.

  5. lg326 Says:

    I’m sorry its taken me so long to get back to you. This blog was written for school and I never check it.

    About your comment about the “poor white folk” not being considered…let’s think of all the por third world country folk that got immensely screwed during colonialism by the millions who never ever wanted colonizers to physcially, mentally and sexually abuse them or how about all the poor brown folk that are being fucked over daily by multinaitonals and strucutral adjustment funds by the IMF? I don’t think their voice is EVER considered in any form of international calculus.

    And at any rate, the concept of borders itself is a creation of the modern nation-state…it is a new institution set about to exploit and maintain status quo. The way borders are constructed today is entirely unprecedented and entirely racist. Wars started by the west are ok, but when the people come knocking on their doors, like the Afghans and Iraqis ( just to point out the obvious ones) they’re called abusers of the system. NOw really, who is abusing the system? The white west who now uses neocolonial methods of global exploitation, or the asylum seeker who is evercising his/her right of free movement?

    Yea, i have zero sympathy for those types of arguements. Working class white people are by far the most racist and unrefined of the lot, and the media and government does nothing to change their opinions or provide them with logical counters. Instead they feed into those ideas of ” poor indigenous Brits being abused in their own country” since its electorally beneficial. And this is exactly why the BNP has gotten a firm foothold in politics their unbelievably racist ideology is considered “a natural predilection” from migration which is absolute absurdity. what they are saying is that it is natural to be racist whene your economic standing is being threatened and the government should have no tolerance for such visceral arguements. But of course, the government is a white hegemonic institution, so why not?

    And on top of all this, the majority of migrants go to other third world countries….they dont even go to the west, IN fact, only 2% of third world immigrants even consider going to the west. ( see OECD figures) borders allow lies, and class fissures benefit the elite since they’re the only ones benefitting from border sanctity.

    I could talk a ton more about why borders suck from an economics perspective, sociological perspectice, historical perspective, developemental perspective, and political perspective, but I have a paper to write and must get to it.

    Just remember, change happens, its a part of life, and how one deals with a changing reality tells volumes about a person.

    Lastly, yes, all those incidences happened in England :(

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